blithering rhetoric

Galloway announces convoy to ‘end the siege’
Jonny Paul, JPost, Jun 13 2010

Veteran anti-Israel activist and former MP George Galloway is planning a land and sea convoy in September, which will attempt to end the blockade of Gaza. The recently deposed MP, who lost his seat in last month’s general election, told demonstrators at an anti-Israel demonstration in London last Saturday that the decision to send the convoys followed negotiations he had in Turkey, where he attended the funerals of the Turkish activists killed in the Gaza flotilla incident. With Hizbullah and Turkish flags waving in the background, Galloway claimed that the convoy will be the “mightiest breach” of the siege that has ever been. He added that the UNSC and the Arab league would be unable to end the siege. He also said that the flotilla incident will mark the beginning of the end of Israel. Pointing in the direction of the Israeli Embassy, he accused Israel of being murderers and terrorists. He told the crowd, to rapturous applause:

Those nest of criminals in the Israeli Embassy, we don’t want these murderers, these terrorists in the heart of London. We don’t want our police protecting them, the police should be protecting us from them. Following our negotiations in Istanbul, I can announce to you that the day after Ramadan [Sep 10], two mighty convoys, one by sea and one by land, will begin. The land convoy will leave from London, will travel though Europe, Turkey, Syria and Jordan, and it will sail from Aqaba to Sinai and enter the gates of Rafah, and I ask the Egyptian government, in the name of millions of people, open those gates and let the convoy through. The sea convoy will simultaneously leave on the same day, sail from country to country around the Mediterranean. We will arrive off Gaza together. We will enter together with the mightiest breach of the siege there has ever been, and we will end this siege that day. This siege in now shaking, the wall is now tottering, we have to break it down ourselves. Just as Soweto began the countdown to the end of the racist apartheid State of South Africa, so the killing of our martyrs on Monday began the numbering of the days of the Zionist apartheid State of Israel, be sure about that. There can be no peace between truth and falsehood, there can be no peace between justice and oppression, there can be no peace between the occupier and the occupied, there can only be eternal struggle between them. There can only be eternal struggle until justice has prevailed and freedom has been won. Viva, viva Palestina.

Also speaking at the demonstration were two activists from the flotilla deported by Israel, Palestine Solidarity Campaign member Sarah Colborne and Ismail Patel from the Friends of al-Aqsa, and Sally Hunt, secretary-general of the University College Union, the union that last week voted at its annual conference to support the ‘boycott, divestment and sanctions’ campaign against Israel and cut ties with the Histadrut. Two parliament members also spoke, newly elected Green MP Caroline Lucas and veteran pro-Palestinian campaigner and Labor MP Jeremy Corbyn. Around 2,000 demonstrators took part in the demonstration, which marched from Downing Street to the Israeli Embassy on Saturday to protest against Israel’s response to the flotilla incident. In January Galloway led a convoy to Gaza but violence broke out in El-Arish and Rafah between members of the convoy and Egyptian police after Egypt barred part of the group from entering Gaza. Galloway was eventually deported and declared persona non grata by Cairo. The Egyptian Foreign Ministry in a statement at the time:

George Galloway is considered persona non grata and will not be allowed to enter into Egypt again.

49 Comments

  1. kei&yuri
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    It’s not rhetoric if you do it.
    Who now remembers what a colossally ignorant loudmouth asshole at times was Churchill?

  2. Hoarsewhisperer
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Galloway’s chances of busting the blockade are infinitely better than those with greased palms and political influence.
    Btw, RB, I was surprised there was no mention of your gutsy attractive female activist friend, Lady what’s her name. Is she still around?

  3. Hoarsewhisperer
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Renouf?

  4. niqnaq
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    I’m sure she is still out there, horsy 😉 You can keep track of her via her website:
    http://www.tellingfilms.netne.net/

  5. Hoarsewhisperer
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Thank you so much!
    I have great admiration for brave women.

  6. lafayette sennacherib
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Ah, friend of Renouf? Is that it? Cute, plucky and defender of an unpopular cause – free speech at the very least. But unfortunately she’s not up to it – just a pretty face, as shown by this video of her arguing over a satellite link with Norman Finkelstein re his refusal to attend the ‘Tehran holocaust conference’.

    Excerpts (loosely): NF – “there’s a difference between kitchen table talk and a scholarly conference… did you invite Raul Hilberg”

    Lady MR = ” we’ve already seen the Hollywood version [she hasn’t heard of Hilberg]… [then she regroups] these people won’t come…”

    NF ” [after more on this level] this doesn’t hurt me. I’m ashamed for YOU! You’re an embarrassment to your culture ”

    I have great respect for Finkelstein, but there were a few things she should have been able to pull him up on, and she just wasn’t clued up. The rest of the ‘revisionists’ are by and large just as lacking in basic reasoning skills, the only thing to be said for them being that most of the ‘affirmers’ are just as flimsy – Finkelstein said as much himself in ‘the Holocaust Industry’ [excepting Hilberg], which is one of the things she could have pulled him up on.

  7. niqnaq
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    I’m not really a friend of hers currently. I met her at the House of Lords affair with Israel Shamir, the one that Lord Ahmed got so much stick for organising. We did spend some time together a year or so ago. But some envious person told her I was only after her body.

    Philosophically speaking, she is not highly erudite. She is a sort of pop hellenist. She is not too interested in the 57 varieties of Jewish holocaust historian, but she is interested in the diplomatic history leading up to the founding of the state of Israel. She frequents fairly far-Right conservative circles, as does David Irving. Holocaust revisionists are not by any means all right-wingers, but I think it is fair to say that she is one. As you may know, Pierre Guillaume is a Leftist. He is married to a black north African woman, too. Again, you may know that the founder of French holocaust revisionism, Paul Rassinier, was not a right-winger, but a non-communist socialist. But many of the people around Faurisson are definitely extreme Rightists.

  8. Helvena
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    “We did spend some time together a year or so ago” – and you haven’t crowed about it earlier…that’s really admirable restraint.

  9. niqnaq
    Posted June 13, 2010 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Can I get you a saucer of milk? 😉

    Actually it was more than a year ago. More like two years ago. We went to Paris together to see Faurisson appear in court and defend himself against the bizarre charge of having given a TV interview that, unknown to him, would later be available to viewers in countries where the opinions he expresses are illegal.

    Incidentally, Mr Sennacherib, I defend Finkelstein, as the others here will confirm, not because I share his views on the holocaust, but because I think he is right for what he does, which I conceive to be mobilising young left-liberal US Jews. It would be completely pointless and counter-productive for him to develop a critical historiography of the holocaust itself. His concern is with the reception of holocaust studies and its political effects now. Hilberg is important to Finkelstein because Hilberg undermined a few of the sacred cows in the Jewish received canon of holocaust studies, but I don’t myself consider Hilberg to be an important historian.

  10. Hoarsewhisperer
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    I couldn’t help wondering if Lafayette is a milder version of another critic of ideological inconsistency and unpreparedness known as Imre Khan.

  11. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 5:42 am | Permalink

    His questions have been interesting, so far. But he can’t help looking for some sort of secret right-wing affiliation on my part, hence:

    Ah, friend of Renouf? Is that it?

    The thing is, I have no affiliations, left, right or centre. The price I pay for this is quite simply that I have no friends at all 😦

  12. lafayette sennacherib
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    LOL, as they say. Well, I explained why I can’t help looking for not so much right-wing tendencies as ‘thought crime’ – because I’ve been accused of being ‘the notorious neo-nazi Rowan Berkeley’.
    I must point out that I don’t have a long history in revisionism; in fact I’d never given it a thought, though I’d previously read ‘the Holocaust Industry’, until these constant arguments about Gilad Atzmon (who I’d vaguely heard of) got me to look at what Atzmon writes, and then at what some of the revionists write. I found most of them to be a mixture – more than a few German nationalists, who are at least no worse, and often less extreme, than US paleocons, but a few more left or liberal too. I read Butz’s book and, contrary to the descriptions of it, I found it very restrained, balanced and sane. But a lot of the rest seem very sloppy, with a few good points mixed in. Some go far too far, like Zundel I think, who seems to deny mass-killing of jews in the East, which is ridiculous. I haven’t found ANY who deny the deportations. There is plenty of debate amongst mainstream historians about whether the extermination of the jews was pre-conceived or was improvised. The death count has been revised many times. The revisionists want to revise it some more, and doubt the mass gassings, claiming disease and starvation could have done most of the job. That seems no big deal to me.
    Carlo Mattogno and Germar Rudolf seem to be the most serious of the current crop. Rudolf’s disputes with Jean-Claude Pressac seem to be the core of the debate. Pressac gets lots of money, and Rudolf gets jailed. And the ‘left’ are ok about that – to quote Chomsky they ” remain deeply attached to Stalinist and totalitarian methods”. I don’t have any axe to grind in this; I’m not able to assess the relative merits of Rudolf or Pressac. But, while the zionists exercise such power over EVERYTHING, I’m going to be very suspicious of any ‘authority’ who comes down on the side of Pressac. The zionists tell so many lies, they can hardly complain when people start doubting ‘the Big One’.
    As to Hilberg, well he’s definitely NOT one of the 57 varieties of jewish holocaust chroniclers. You can find the 57 on Amazon if you search ‘holocaust’, and thanks to the ‘look inside’ option, you can see that they rarely even write about the holocaust, more about the history of European antisemitism – ‘tearjerkers’ as Finkelstein called them. Hilberg seems at least serious. I haven’t read him of course – who has? His book is about 1500 pages long, you can’t buy it for under £100, and I can’t get it from my library consortium. But EVERYONE, including the revisionists, considers ‘the Destruction of the European jews’ to be substantial. However, Jurgen Graf, in his book ‘Giant with Feet of Clay’, available to read free online, gives a breakdown of how many pages Hilberg devotes to what; he says the camps get about 10 pages, and the gas-chambers get a few paragraphs, with not very sound sources. Maybe so.
    Whatever, it strikes me in my naivete, that this being ‘biggest crime in the history of the human race’, that we can scarcely go an hour without hearing about, I should be able to go to Amazon and find an accessible book straight away which discusses all the evidence for everything and leaves me in no doubt.

    However to labour a point, Lady Renouf, WAS representing the revisionists in public – mixing up Hilberg with Spielberg is just not trying very hard. And that is about as much as I’ll ever have to say about that.

  13. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    You can get a used copy of Hilberg’s magnum opus for the very tolerable price of £14:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Destruction-European-Jews-Holmes-Publishers/dp/B0034AKOMC/

    You can read Pressac’s book here:
    http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation
    It’s really extraordinary how it admits that there is no direct evidence whatever of homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz.

    If you like music, you might enjoy this:
    https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/incisive-holocaust-historiography/

  14. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    PS: you may be wondering what I mean by calling Michele Renouf a ‘pop hellenist’. In a nutshell, what I mean is that she thinks that the ancient Greeks invented freedom of intellectual enquiry, and that this lies, or should lie, at the basis of ‘our European heritage’, and that it is in danger of being swamped by a tidal wave of Oriental obscurantism.

  15. lafayette sennacherib
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    That’ll be the abridged version.

  16. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    I think this is the edition concerned, 360 pp.:
    http://www.gazellebookservices.co.uk/ISBN/0841909105.htm
    I just took a look at Abebooks, and it is not aware of any other English edition. However, you are quite right; the French edition has 1095 pages:
    La destruction des Juifs d’ Europe. Book Description: 1988. Paris, Fayard, 1988, fort in-8, reliure éditeur sous jaquette, 1095 pages, annexes, index. Edition en un seul volume (et pas celle en Livre de poche).
    The German edition appears to come in three volumes:
    Die Vernichtung der europäischen Juden. Book Description: Fischer Taschenbuch, Frankfurt am Main, 1999.

  17. lafayette sennacherib
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    I think there’s a lot to be said for that ‘hellenism’ – the all-pervading psychobabble does strike me as a new religious orthodoxy, being pushed on us very hard.

    Yes, I like music but I’m not sure that holocaust historiography soundtrack qualifies. I’m set in my ways. Since you’ve been mentioning them, I rediscovered Van Der Graaf Generator recently. Because there’s been no modern music I can get excited about since the mid-70s ( apart from a brief renaissance of country music in the early 90s) I’ve been searching for old bands I missed, and I came across VDGG. I saw them a few times in the late sixties/early 70s, then forgot about them. I got hold of all their albums, and a lot of Peter Hamill’s last year; I don’t know them very well yet, but yes – definitely not to be overlooked.

  18. lafayette sennacherib
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Anyway, according to Jurgen Graf ( right or wrong), you need the full version of Hilberg’s book, to read what little he has to say about the actual process of extermination.

  19. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    In practical terms, I agree that one can hardly dispute the activities of the Einsatzgruppen, though of course the numbers are pretty undiscernable. The gas chambers, which are the iconic elements of the whole thing, are what are so evasive. Even the preceding eugenics program’s use of gas chambers is evasive, evidentially speaking.

    Throbbing Gristle’s treatment of the holocaust probably does leave something to be desired in point of conceptual rigour, yes 🙂 Look at this though: the lower photo is Throbbing Gristle’s record company logo:
    https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/society-of-the-spectacle/

    VdGG palpably had acid oozing from their pores at all times. This is a nice quality. The Pretty Things did a song in 1967 called “Are You Tripping, Mister?” about this type of thing. It’s on their album “Emotions”. But nowadays I find you can get a lot of the most important effects with salvia, which is more convenient since the peak experience only lasts 10-20 seconds, and also completely legal, so I write a lot about that.

  20. moonkoon
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    It is not just the scale and methodology of the various vindictive group punishments that occurred around WW2 that demand to be scrutinised. I am now of the opinion that the whole narrative surrounding the event (and of the preceding 40 or 50 years) requires urgent review.
    Much of the conventional wisdom that I took for granted has not stood up well to closer inspection. 🙂
    A misreading of the causes and effects of events over that time could be disastrous for the future of the West.

  21. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    It tends to get way out of proportion. I gave some stats five days ago to emphasise this:
    https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/still-worshipping-at-the-altar-of-the-high-and-holy-holocaust/
    When you point these out to holocaustolatrists, they say, Ah but you’re ignoring the unique features that separate it from all other such mass murders, the industrial technique, the horrid premeditation, etc. And these, it turns out, are precisely the features that are so oddly resistant to concrete proof.

  22. moonkoon
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    This is a bit OT, but if you have listened to or watched any of the WC soccer, you will have heard the insectoidal hum that permeates the venues. The spectators (or a good proportion of them) have plastic horns to blow, the sum total of which sounds like a swarm of bees or flies (or even mosquitoes 🙂 ).
    I’m sure it’s just a coincidence, but they sound for all the world like a recreation of that buzzing nuisance, Baalzebub. 🙂
    Baal, fly, insect. Zebub, hum or murmur.

    … The Chaldean god Baal was often called Baal-Zebul, or the god of the dwelling place. The word zebub, or zabab, means a fly, and Baal-Zebul became Baalzebub, or Beelzebub, a word which was loosely translated to mean Jupiter’s fly. The fly was looked upon as a form of the divine power, because of its ability to destroy decaying substances and thus promote health. The fly may have obtained its name Zebub from its peculiar buzzing or humming. Inman believes that Baalzebub, which the Jews ridiculed as My Lord of Flies, really means My Lord Who Hums or Murmurs. …

    -THE SECRET TEACHINGS OF ALL AGES by Manly P. Hall [1928, copyright not renewed]
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta20.htm

  23. Helvena
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    From this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYBifGynf6g
    To this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn1ct1xomoY

    It seems natural and healthy to me, a natural progression. People will not simply lay down and die.

  24. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Someone did a nice song rather in the style of the jesus & mary chain called “Chaos Rune” that kind of bridges the gap. The thing is there isn’t a “chaos rune” in real runology, only in sword & sorcery type games.

    I wouldn’t trust Manly P Hall too much on hebrew etymology.

  25. lafayette sennacherib
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    I googled Throbbing Gristle. I thought they were a punk label. Now I remember – that Mr Orridge seems like value for money, from what little I’ve heard about him. A bit much though, maybe?

  26. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    He was a savagely sardonic character, then. In a way, TG could be compared to Crass, but the most significant difference lies in the fact that TG abandoned even the most nominal commitment to any sort of Leftism, and started an aesthetic trend towards right-wing nihilism. If you really want to find the reason for this fateful disconnect, I do not think you will find it in Crowley; I think you will find it in Anton LaVey.

    TG made all their records in a little home studio very near to where I currently live; in fact, that’s why I moved to this part of London, when Gen was starting up PTV and the Temple of Psychic Youth; I wanted to get involved in some way, which I very briefly did. After 1984 or so he developed a cynical and effective impersonation of an old hippie, and settled in the USA, and won a million dollar lawsuit against Rick Rubin for nearly getting him killed in a house fire. With not untypical modesty, he claimed to have invented acid house music, and here is a good example of PTV doing acid house:
    https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/psychic-tv-with-genesis-p-orridge-joy/

    Check this one out for him actually doing some singing; it is from PTV’s transitional period, half way between explicit Crowleyanity and pop hippiedom:

    The most interesting and obscure thing I have by him on here is this:
    https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-dad-a-jim-jones-compilation/

    This really gets us into the whole area of Crowleyanity and the 1980s groups influenced by it: Psychic TV, Coil, and Current 93.

  27. moonkoon
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, I got that wrong.
    Baal is Lord, zebub has the other meanings.
    Although Baal is sometimes represented as an insect…

  28. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    zevuv in modern hebrew means fly (the insect). Presumably that’s what it means in biblical hebrew as well.

    Mr Sennacherib, you might take a look at this too:
    https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2009/09/27/the-hegelian-and-marxian-dialectics-as-applied-to-punk/
    The song is about the last explicit Crowleyan thing PTV did before their hippie turn.

  29. Helvena
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    This is an interesting article by Alex Kurtagic were he talks about Black Metal, its’ roots to the present. In the third installment he mentions Crawely and Tolkien and Anglo-Saxon folklore.

    http://www.toqonline.com/2010/04/black-metal-1/

    http://www.toqonline.com/2010/04/black-metal-2/

    http://www.toqonline.com/2010/04/black-metal-3/

  30. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    I shall take a look. There is a book I recommend called “Gods of the Blood” by Matthias Gardell which has some material about this. There is also a book by Michael Moynihan (of Blood Axis) and Didrik Soderlind called “Lords of Chaos, The Bloody Rise of the Satanic Metal Underground” which is entirely about this, but it’s published by Feral House, which puts me off buying it.

    Ok, I just read it (it’s an easy read). He mentions the Moynihan/Soderlind book in the first part but dismisses it as overly Jungian and otherwise rather trashy. However, Moynihan is a musical genius, which is more than I can say for most of them. I have featured quite a few tracks by Blood Axis here on Niqnaq, thanks to YouTube. I still cannot figure out how to use my own video editor, otherwise I would make a few items for YouTube myself; not of Blood Axis, who are pretty well covered on YouTube, but probably of Israeli punk bands, which certainly aren’t.

    A lot of the Ariosophic material he mentions (e.g. Guido List, Rudolf von Sebottendorf) has been translated and republished by Stephen Flowers, who I mention now and then. Lanz von Liebenfels’ “Theozoology” has also been translated, anonymously, and reprinted in the USA by a dedicated Ariosophic publisher called Europa Germanic Traditions in Sandusky, Ohio.

  31. Helvena
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Thanks

  32. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Don’t mention it. This is one of my principal hobbies, you know.

    I think Alex Kurtagic is constructing a false opposition between rationalism and irrationalism, in the sense that the unacknowledged prototype for much nineteenth-century Ariosophy was in fact Jewish kabbalah. So obviously, if Ariosophy envies kabbalah for its heroic and mythic irrationalism, then the reaction against Jewish influence cannot be identified as a reaction against rationalism. in fact, Ariosophic irrationalism was attempting to emulate kabbalistic irrationalism, just as Hitler later, according to some reports, claimed to be attempting to emulate Jewish racial solidarity.

    The rationalistic strand in modern Judaism comes from Aristotle via Maimonides. It is fiercely opposed to, and opposed by, kabbalistic Judaism.

    PS: I think it is a bit naive of him to blame Led Zeppelin for all this, just because Jimmy Page was/is into Crowley. There is nothing in their content that really supports this idea. Crowleyans and Satanists are two different things, really. That’s why earlier I drew the distinction between them when talking about Genesis P-Orridge, who rapidly revealed a whole host of LaVeyan contacts when he arrived in the USA. Coil and Current 93 on the other hand stayed much closer to Crowleyanity and as far as I know rather turned their noses up at Satanists. The difference is significant, because contrary to rumour Crowley never committed himself to any particular form of politics, whereas LaVey had the rather bizarre distinction of proclaiming that Satan was a devotee of right-wing anarchism.

  33. lafayette sennacherib
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Orridge has a really good voice in that 2nd clip. That Black Metal article just seems to be full of code words for eugenics. Same old…

  34. niqnaq
    Posted June 14, 2010 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    He has two voices, a raw abrasive one and a weedy anaemic one. I’m not sure which is real.

    This has been a fun conversation. But I’m for an early night. I’m sure you and Helvena can pursue all this further.

  35. Helvena
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    Without interference nature practices eugenics.

  36. kei&yuri
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    What is the problem with Feral House?

  37. niqnaq
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    I dunno, I just don’t like Adam Parfrey. I can’t really remember why. If you wish, I shall google around until I find whatever it was that displeased me.
    🙂
    I probably would enjoy the book. I really admire Moiynihan enormously. It’s interesting that this man Alex Kurtagic evidently dislikes the fact that the book uses a Jungian approach. I suspect he has a peculiar concept of ‘irrationalism’ that he fears Jung might undermine.

  38. kei&yuri
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Adam Parfrey is your typical Jew Nobility hyper-establishmentarian but ostensibly anti-establishment rich asshole, but there are plenty of interesting and useful people in that group. For example we adore Ames and Taschen. Parfrey released a book on his own label called “Extreme Islam” which is basically a fleshed-out version of the more respectable-looking hasbarah regurgitated in every editorial. Islam is bad because Louis Farrakhan has a questionnaire about the circumference of the earth. It “balances” with minimal notes on the least telegenic Jews and Christian Zionists but it includes numerous translations from MEMRI, which is never identified as extremist itself, and takes care to provide documentary evidence of the silliest fetishes such as the Hamas charter business (with no corresponding Zionist exclusivism).
    We thought maybe you had something more. Feral and Da Capo releases excellent coffee table porn and alternative history.

  39. niqnaq
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    We thought maybe you had something more.

    Blimey, isn’t all that enough to put you off?

  40. kei&yuri
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    Well. He’s got weird tastes. Granted they overlap with ours but you never know, there could be a dead girl or a live puppy somewhere …

  41. niqnaq
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    Helvena knows her way around the Occidental Quarterly website, maybe she can find something else by Alex Kurtagic in which he explains what exactly it is he has against Jung. That would be interesting.

  42. niqnaq
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    Lafayette: if you like gen’s voice, take a listen to this, from PTV’s first album:

  43. lafayette sennacherib
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    hmm less so, that track.

  44. niqnaq
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    It’s a good example, though. I quite like the way he bursts out into a full-throated roar at one point, about half way through.

    Anyway, I think I’ve given you a good introductiion to his oeuvre, and I have avoided the more ‘serious’, portentious, intimidating tracks, of which there are a great many. For instance, “Message from the Temple”, which in any case doesn’t use his own voice but that of Alan Oversby, alias “Mr Sebastian”, who I believe helps people to equip themselves with body jewelry of an intimate nature, such as cock rings.

  45. niqnaq
    Posted June 15, 2010 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Lafayette, if you are unfamiliar with Crowley’s actual views, take a look at this. It really is from a letter (i.e. an email) I wrote to someone, so it starts in the middle of a discussion about Islam and marxism, but it concludes with what I think is Crowley’s pithiest statement of what he actually believed:
    https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2010/04/09/a-letter-i-just-wrote-to-a-friend/

  46. kei&yuri
    Posted June 16, 2010 at 3:12 am | Permalink

    Rowan, have you read Secret Agent 666? It ties everything together much more nicely than “The Nature of the Beast” and other Crowley biographies we’d read.

  47. niqnaq
    Posted June 16, 2010 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    I have a copy of a 12-page document by Richard B Spence with that title. It appeared in the so-called “International Journal of Intelligence and Counterintelligence” in 2000.

    It is vitiated by one gigantic and inexplicable flaw: Spence appears to believe that ‘Amado Crowley’ was genuinely Aleister’s son. I certainly do not believe this, and nor does any specialist in Crowleyana of whom I am aware.

    The most interesting item I have found about Crowley’s activities in WW1 is in French. I don’t know whether I have ever discussed it on Niqnaq, but it is here:
    http://www.morgane.org/Theleme/sirac.htm
    He told two French journalists, Pierre Lazareff and Claude Dhérelle, this:

    – Il fallait que je fasse cela pour avoir la confiance des Allemands. J’avais mon but…
    – Ce but ?
    – Faire couler les navires américains encores neutres, par les sous-marins Allemands.
    – Hein ! Je en comprends plus !
    – Oui, ainsi de cette façon l’Amérique était obligée d’entrer en guerre à nos côtés. J’étais d’ailleurs toujours d’accord avec le capitaine Gount, chef de l’Intelligence-Service en Amérique. Aujourd’hui, Gount est lord-amiral et je lui ai télégraphié de m’envoyer une lettre pour me disculper auprès de votre gouvernement.

    Captain Guy Gaunt did eventually become a full admiral, and he received a knighthood in 1918:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Gaunt
    Here is another discussion of Gaunt, by someone fairly well versed in OTO history:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20040222155449/www.redflame93.com/Gaunt.html

  48. kei&yuri
    Posted June 16, 2010 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    Check it out if you can find it, we only got halfway through and saw nothing about Amado but it’s certainly an excellent argument. Crowley traveled widely for what has always been assumed to be no good reason but Spence argues brilliantly that Crowley just happened to be near foreign areas of political concern during times when those areas became sensitive, and many of his activities dovetail with intelligence mind games. For example, he wrote for a pro-German US newspaper during WWI and later claimed confusingly that it was part of a vague, larger patriotism, and Spence connects this to the infamous “deep propaganda” of that war (which was actually what gave propaganda its bad name). Elsewhere he is in Petersburg toward the end of Tsardom; at another point he is in French Indochina near a failed revolt; and Corfu is explained as a way of watching Mussolini’s useless navy.

  49. niqnaq
    Posted June 16, 2010 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    What exactly are you talking about? A full-length book, with the same title, by the same author, as the 12-page article?

    In that French article, Crowley complains that his companion has already been thrown out of the country: “ma fiancée, une Nicaraguaine divorcée d’avec un Français, Mme Ferrari de Miramar.”
    Vroom, vroom :mrgreen:

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